Curse

BahamutKaiser · Jun 26, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

OH, so an A/N can hold enemies hostage, create a new form of AoE Barrier for offensive and defensive purposes, or work as a heavily armored melee unit? Gee, I didn't know that, thanks for informing ME.

Lack of perspective isn't a legitimate disaaproval, this class has more then a few original abilities, perhaps too many, if that were the argument I might heed warning, only to say I hope they could fit it all in one class without being imbalanced.

And listening to someone call me kid, relaying that he is old? Perhaps this underscores the creativity and enhanced perspective of youth vs the narrow and stubborn mindset of the elderly. I happen to be 22, and this idea is more than original, but thanks for insulting yourself.

Neither an Assassin nor a Necro can capture enemy units wile feeding on them, neither of them can obtain a reasonable amount of defense to club on the front line, Necros restrictive AoE capabilities (Wells which require corpses) are far dissimular from Barriers (which require the mobility and attack of the caster).

Under your broad implecations, Necromancer should not have hexes, because Mesmer revolves around hexes, Necromancer should only have corpse raising and manipulation and lifestealing. Fortunatly many of our classes are versatile, incorperating simular elements in alternate ways, creating new classes to enjoy the game with, none of which are any more dissimular to my Stalker class.

Thank You, come again.

As for some of the issues brought up by our less offensive members, the armor a warrior has is somewhere from 80-90 AL, including buffs like damage reduction, or energy, but most commonly an extra 20 vs physical. If you add another 16 armor in the use of a shield, you get a "possible" maximum of 96+20 vs physical, or 106, and Warrior can add absorption runes. The added armor on a Stalkers armor only kicks in wile he is feeding, and since taking damage wile feeding kills the victim faster than the feeder, it actually insulates the victim from getting wiped out easily.....

The fact that this class also utilizes a dual hand weapon like Assassin means that in order to use Stalkers "Vampirism" attribute to increase feeding, which will inclusively improve his melee weapon and attack skills, he will not be able to use a shield for added defense. If a Vampire character tries to put points in tactics to use a shield, he will also end up using a single handed weapon, and his attack damage would be rather weak if he is already pooring points into Vampirism and Tactics and Forbidden Power.

A stalkers primary defensive strength would be Transformation, and since it is a easy secondary to incoperate into other classes, it can help other classes with offense and defense in melee. Compared to using Tactics from Warrior, you only get a defensive boost in the use of a shield, and skills which realy arn't enough for a weaker class to make the front line. With Stalker as a secondary, along with transformation, you can use transformation to gain some added melee damage and defense with the use of a skill..... at the cost of your casting efficiency.

But still, I intend to redo the armor strengths, this class should have adrenaline as part of its skill costs, but it may require an extra bar of energy regeneration to function reasonably with his casting capabilities, unless adrenaline is an acceptable cost source for seduction and frozen fire skills. I think it is more important that this class have adrenaline capabilities, because we are now limited to Warrior for adrenaline use, which is a realy poor secondary choice for casters and most others. I think we need more classes which can utilized more versatile adrenaline skills, which would be effective for ranged, or give them more insentive to get into melee.

(Edit) I went ahead and changed up the Incubus and Succubus armor to be less defensive vs damage and more defensive vs hexes. And I reduced the Feeding triggered armor on Stalker armor wile adding reduced degen from bleeding (making bleeding less determental to the Stalker as a trigger for his blood cost attacks).

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

ty tyvm I dont want the poor ickle tanks to be out of a job :-P and I think ot would have been fine to have the forty bonuis if the natural armor was caster armor. I think this weay mainly due to the fact that the Stalker, being able to use spells and such could easily demolish anything with such high armor plus spiking. See, the usual trade off is dies quick but kills/heals quick(caster) or dies slow but doesn't spike well at all(tank). So that's just my backing. Verlas I was fairly misleading in what I meant I am sorry I had meant the too much armor in the different fashion as I just described. Bahamut good job tho, keep spitting out cool classes like this and I am sure anet will use ATLEAST one of em. better than a class diea like (class idea name here):umm he kills stuff by shooting them....HE IS TEH 1337Z0R5 HE HAXXOR5 YOU WIT TEH UBER 1337I5M 5H007ING SKI115!!!!

Verlas Ho'Esta · Jun 26, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I've been mulling it over for a day or so, and I've become a little worried about the gender-dependent spells in the seduction skill line. Now, we all know mature people will see this as a flavorful and appropriate option, and children won't really care as they're mostly too young to notice. But then you run into the problem of over-sensitive, immature adults who get offended way too easily. You know some idiot is going to scream bloody murder about equality or some other nonsense.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 26, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

I think the cloths available to women do alot more to offend "sensative" people than "seductive" techniques, I didn't suggest anything like "pelvic thrust" skill mind you. Sensative people shouldn't be playing a killing, monsters and witchcraft game anyways, that is literally what it is.

If they are going to scream bloody murder, they would have done it as soon as they saw the trailer for Factions, where Shiro kills the emperor, and that ritualist that got fraged was rather brutal too, this is a mature game, and they had to change the rating already, having some seduction skills in a class along side the already seductive appearal available is hardly a sin.

I appreciate the recognition guys, I usually spend 90% of the time beating down idiots, fortunately I have been executing them regularly since I got here, and there are less and less of them doding around. It may just be that vampires are so widely popular that people catch onto them, but that is all fine with me.

I agree with some of what was said by.....one of you guys, that making a vampire class should be done well, not half ass or weak. I think that is where they laxed with assassin, they tried to limit his special abilities too much and the one thing that makes assassin fun to play (teleporting) is barely available enough to enjoy. If they make something like Vampire, or even like my Dragon idea, they need to make it worthy of the title, these kinds of characters are the highest archtypes of fan appreciation, they shouldn't be underscored.

I actually find it kind of funny how Anet seems to build up classes in their characters in the trailers, yet you end up with a shadow of what you were impressed by in actual play. Devona with 2 swords in the trailer, single sword in the game, and Devona has a Hammer instead, Assassin doing a fantastic teleport into a death move on Shiro, and we barely get to use them in actuality, I hope they don't continue with these trailer build ups and gameplay letdowns.

Alcazanar · Jun 26, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

stalker -> assassin vampire -> necromancer

anyways i´think youre wasting your time kiddo
they have said that gender shouldnt affect you charactor
in any way, and that defensive barrier and all that junk
i dont think anet or whoever it is wants to program all
that HONESTLY, and stop flaming me by the way

Numa Pompilius · Jun 26, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSonofDarwin

Well, the community has already created an essence of ninja and pirate in the game (annoyingly, might I add).

Then I will sign ONLY if we're talking about a vampireninjapirate! With eyepatch, pegleg, parrot, black loose-fitting dress, poisoned shuriken, and pointy ears & teeth and allergy to sunlight. And it must incessantly say things like "Arrr, matey, we be superior beings to the cattle, because we know the way of ninjutsu!".

THEN I'll sign.

CartmanPT · Jun 26, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcazanar

and stop flaming me by the way

Please look at your other post.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcazanar

great job kid you just suggested A/N
NEXT!

The next can be one of your threads in sardelac...... closed ...... crap.....closed.......

Nice work at flamming others when you dont seem to be able to have an ideia with more than 3 lines.

Back on topic, i like the idea, its seems a little hard to me to make a lot of skills with that attributes, but i think that would be a nice idea to make the gender have other effect than just looks

KvanCetre · Jun 26, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Seduction seems almost useless, especially in PvE :\

Alcazanar · Jun 26, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

Seduction seems almost useless, especially in PvE :\

thats my point!
how do you seduce a skeleton? :S
and those Aatxe are they male?

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 26, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Seduction will be semi to useless on some enemies, just like certain types of damage on certain enemies is reduced and like stone enemies are immune to poison, besides he has three other skill lines.

Alcazanar · Jun 26, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

final post...

go ahead and post your idea to anet
but i dont think they will use it.
Okay you worked hard to get some class
but i seriously dont think anyone wants
to do the programming of barriers and
holding enemies, and the sedduction
thing is just insulting

Liu · Jun 26, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Gender specific hexes?

...

Why do some people not realise why that can NOT EVER BE DONE. EVER?

Also, Vampires ARE too much like necromancers, Vampiric Bite? Vampiric Touch? Order of the vampire? Vampiric gaze? It is difficult but you must think up something completely new. I mean who saw ritualists or assassins coming?
Exactly...

EDIT!!!

I've also just noticed that this will spawn neverending hurr hurr jokes about seduction, and the class overall. Private dances for money and other pathetic things.

BahamutKaiser · Jun 27, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

This is the part where I am glad to have a working history of success in the face of ignorant denial.

If you take the time to read, I already addressed your perspective Liu, and I don't need to add anything, but since you spent more time writing a reply then reading the first part of the concept I will outine the issue of simular classes and class titles compared to skill titles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOP

The name for the class could most classically be called Vampire, but from the start it automatically mirrors Necromancers vampiric skills in the Blood Attribute. Because of the comparison, another name may be better, but the way Necromancer utilizes blood magic in a life stealing manner in comparison to this Vampires physical “assaults” which not only siphon life from their enemy, but immobilize them, are quite different, this I will explain further as the more unique feature of this class. Some other titles which would fit the class would be Stalker, Forsaken (by the gods), or some kind of Vampire hybrid title like a Vampir or the like. The other title which would well suit the class could be something like Incubus or Succubus, but it would have to be one title for male and female, and unless there is ambiguous title for male and female seduction demons, this wouldn’t work, although it would be a great set of armor.

Vampire may be too similar to Necromancers blood magics to be considered as a class, I know. But since classes like Ritualist, which use the spirits of the dead instead of the corpses of the dead, share a name with some of the skills a necromancer has, and moreover, are known as necromancers in the White Mantle army, as well as serve Grenth, since Ritualist is so similar to necromancer, I don’t feel an actual vampire class is uncalled for. Vampires are yet unknown, leaving the origin of such titles like Vampiric Bite miscellaneous. If Vampire isn’t going to be a class, it should at least be an enemy.

And the usual argument, a vampire can be made putting this or that class together like Ranger/Necro, will always come up. Wile ranger can use necromancers life stealing skills well, this Vampiric classes skills will be about as similar to necromancers blood magics as Ritualist Spirits are to Elementist Wards.

To begin with, the class name is Stalker, it is basicly a way around calling it vampire, with the exact same pretense, but if it "can not" be called vampire, Stalker is just as good, you can see that on the header of the window if you take 5 seconds to look. I didn't try to hide the true identity of the class either, so don't even bother saying so, it is also in the title, as I have already said, Vampire and Vampiric skills are just descriptions for skills on other classes, just like Vampiric weapon, a ritualist skill, this is very simular to Blood Ritual, a Necromancer skill, which doesn't make ritualist an unacceptable title. To be more specific, White Mantle Necromancers are called "White Mantle Ritualist".

Trying to limit new class identities based on any association, skill, monster, or simular, will only remove nearly every decent title from being a new class. There are hundreds, if not thousands of pretenses throuought the game, if you eliminate every title that has anything to do with an exsisting classes skills titles or NPC names, you basicly have to use another language to come up with something totaly unrelated. Can we not have a class called Defender because there are skills with defender in it? Can we not have a class called Protector because there are skills which have Protect in them? We have a ritualist even though there are a few necromancer skills with ritual in the title....... making a class called Stalker, or Vampire, even though we have necromancer skills that have "Vampiric" and "Vampire" in them is exactly the same.

Who saw Assassin coming?, me of course.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=10656
Please note that I wrote when I bought the game, about a month after it's release, proving my logical insight on truely obvious developements, these things may be beyond you, but I'm not you thankfully, and assuming others are as limited as you is.... I'll save you the harsh language for now.

I actually wrote another thread detailing 2 class ideas which had a shapeshifter called a shamen, one of his attributes was Rituals, perhaps too dissimular to compare, but.... Yeah it didn't hit me out of the blue. This just proves that I see further then you, since it hit you out of the blue.

That is all Liu...

As I have been suggesting class ideas before "leet" like you even recognized that there would be new classes, and surprizingly enough recognized the best and most likely class at that, and many of my suggestions were actually represented in the class we now call Assassin, in the oriental based chapter that didn't fit "their" perspective of GW MO. Why, because I have much insight to share.

First of all, these skills types use systems which are already in the game, you can already immobilize a person with Knockdown, all they have to do is alter an exsisting function so it doesn't serve as an interrupt, nor disable actions, but keeps them from moving for a set period of time. I don't even have to justify barriers, it is just a new way to provide a localized DoT effect, it simply has a different requirement than a binding ritual or DoT spell, and it would also have new effects.

I am sorry I didn't finish introducing seduction, I had already designed a functional plan for alternating hexes, but forgot to add it. The hex has a listed effect on enemies of the opposite gender, for any other creature, be it the same gender, even if it is another species, seduction, like pheromones, can still cause a reaction. The hex would have an alternate generic effect of less potency, on enemies of an unspecified gender, unless the creature is without gender, like a rock golem, making it invulnerable, no different than any flesh oriented condition. Quite simply, there is an easy remedy for the problem, and if you had insight you could recognize that, but your resistance reguardless, so it doesn't matter what you think, because baseless resistance is irrational.

A new class needs a new gameplay technique, trying to oust a class idea because it has a required new gameplay feature is like trying to find a new class in a class combination, a new class requires something that cannot be provided by another class, or it does just fits into your original statement "A/N".

Your arguments are bullshit, no dancing around it, first you try to disapprove of my idea because you didn't recognize Stalkers unique capabilities, and call it a hybrid of current classes, then when I Axe your ignorant reply, you try and disapprove of its unique capabilities. You basicly disproved your own possition, that isn't even a perspective, it is blaitent offense without legitimate cause. I owe no respect to a flaigrantly slanderous writer who cannot recognize nor respect other peoples work, you don't have any justified disapprovals. Disrespect where Disrespect is due as I say, pandering to social acceptance and courtesy to someone who deserves to be humiliated only breeds more ignorance.

As I often say in most of my class suggestions, if you can't recognize my concept or find something that doesn't add up, ask me how it could and would work, and I will be glad to explain it to you. Most of the time the explaination is already there and you overlooked it. Coming in here and proving your ignorance about the subject, than continuing to disapprove in opposition to you own, previous, disapprovals, is not only ignorance, but immaturity. The only acceptable response to being proven wrong is an apology, followed by more diligent recognition, the fact that you return to slander some more after already being corrected just proves how childish you are.

So who is a "Kid"? I will not listen to another ounce of ignorance nor immaturity from such an childish writer, Since this is your "last post", it may not matter that that I cannot read any more of your trash, but since I doubt you are mature enough to keep your word, I will add you to the ignore list anyway. You can't find a problem with this class because it is functional, it may have open ends but there is nothing broken about it, and it is plenty original enough, and even more popular. But feel free to insult yourself further if you wish.

Now that that buisiness is through, completely, I will try to be more civil. I will try to take some time tomorrow to elaborate on Seduction hexes, as well I have yet to add a key skill which allows Vampire to reduce DP he incures when he dies, and self ressurecting skills in Vampirism and "No Attribute".

P.S, if the moderators feel the need to edit or remove this post because of its intensity, then feel free remove the slander Alcazanar calls a reply.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 27, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

All I can say is, QFT to everything Bahamut says, you ahve earned my respect Bahamut, few have I seen that leave no holes in their statements, QFT

BahamutKaiser · Jun 29, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

I intended to suggest some skills which reduce DP and allowed the Stalker to prempt death, but I'm not sure if it is too powerful or if a primarily attacking unit should have this, but it is fitting to the class and as a self cast only skill it isn't the greatest thing in the world.

Anyway, this is what I had in mind.

Immortality (Elite Enchantment), 5 energy, 1/2 cast, 30 recast. Gain Immortality for 20 seconds, if you die will Immortal, you will return to life after 10 seconds with 50% health and 0 energy, and your DP is reduced by 1-12% (Forbidden Power).

Blood of Rosha (Elite Skill), 5 adrenaline, 1 cast, 60 recast. For 10-30 seconds, if you die wile bleeding, you return to life after 5 seconds with 100% health and 0 energy, and bleed for 10 seconds, and throw blades of blood at all enemies at your location dealing +10-25 damage. This skill causes bleeding for 10 seconds (Vampirism).

Unnatural Persistence (Enchantment), 4 adrenaline, 1/4 cast, 30 recast. Gain Unnatural Persistence for 5 seconds, if you die wile under this enchantment, you return to life after 10 seconds with 50% health and 0 energy, and suffer weakness for 20 seconds. (Forbidden Power).

Peaceful Slumber (Skill), 10 energy, 1 cast, 60 recast. For the next 30 seconds, if you die you suffer from no death penalty. (No Attribute)

I could write more, but you get the point. I don't know if these are too powerful, but we already have skills like Divine Intervention which heal you if you take fatal damage, coming back to life after dying is basicly just a delayed Divine Intervention, except you die, often suffer DP, and may lose a match before you self ressurect if nobody else on your team is alive..... I don't realy think it is overpowered, it's only key strength is that you can provide your own resurrection, but on the flip side, you can't keep anyone else alive.

I particularly like the one which does an attack on enemies after you return to life, and all of these would mix well with a necromancers Death Nova capability. Most of the time you would rather wish to bring skills which keep your teammates alive rather than support their deaths, but if you know they are dying on purpose.... it is rather benificial. Dealth Nova and Corpse Explosion support from a Secromancer wile your Stalker intentionally throws away all his life with health cost skills then cast Blood of Rosha to bleed himself to death, and Peaceful Slumber to negate the DP is a powerful combo, Nova upon death, Explosion with corpse, and about 4 seconds later you come back to life and hit anyone still there for +10-20 damage.

It may also be nice if you could use DP restoring or countering moves on your teammates...... And these don't need to be exclusive to Stalker, It would make alot of sense if Ritualist, Monk, and maybe even necromancer had simular skills.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 01, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Nice idea, but these skills might be able to be exploited for EoE bombs and the such. For instance, 7 necros sac themselves with sig of agonay and other skills, and use blood of Rosha. Then they sac again, and the R/Mo or whatever uses light of dwayna. Or you could even find out a way to do 5 EoE bombs in a row with LoD, the 2 rit area reses, and blood of Rosha. Great idea, but maybe make the minimum res time like 10-15 sec.

BahamutKaiser · Jul 01, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

This is true, but you can also rez people and let them die with Vengance, which will incure no further DP and can also be removed on purpose with skills which remove all your enchantments.

It could be exploited by EoE, but it could also be a counter for EoE, as long as one member of you team is alive, you can send in self resurrecting melee and other attack units. EoE isn't healing them either, and if your characters self rez than they can move right back into battle without sending in another victim to bring them back to life. It actualy serves as a better counter to EoE than a tool.

On a related note, they should probably make a few spirit counters, like Wards and Wells which protect against any damage or damage bonus from enemy spirits, something along those lines. Although good use of some ritualists spirits may very well be enough to defeat EoE.

EoE is an exploitable move in general, the fact that abilities can be used to exploit these are not reasons to avoid them, no more than we need to remove Sac and self damaging skills.

If Blood of Rosha tolk 10 seconds to trigger, than there is no way in hell it would trigger in time to catch anyone, it will be easy to escape the effect even with snares at 5 seconds, the delay cannot be longer.

Dying is always a risky tactic, returning to life in 5 or 10 seconds leaves plenty of room for you team to die and lose anyway, and takes you out of the battle for a significant period of time. The fact that these skills can serve greater purpose in combination is a natural advantage, not having this advantage is unbalanced, it needs them. Death, Dp, skill cost, a free corpse which may be used by either side, and time spend completely neutral, all add into the cost of this skill, the fact that it can be used together with other techniques is a naturally balancing part of the equation. And since it works in advantage to either side suffering from EoE bombing, it isn't unbalanced even slightly.

Inspiration · Aug 19, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

congrats! you've made a cultist!!

Poison Ivy · Aug 19, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

I thought Necromancer wasn't wasn't removed yet?

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Aug 19, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Iswear some people areso dang closed minded-.- bet yall are the same people that say "ZOMG the assassin is teh ripoff of teh warriore!!!!111!!one!1"